Lada Vesta what checkpoint. Robotic and mechanical transmission. Comparison of basic parameters with French mechanics
The gearbox is one of the most important elements of a car device. The dynamic characteristics of the car depend on the quality and reliability of the transmission. The gearbox affects how fast the acceleration will be, to what speed the car can accelerate. The gearbox partially affects fuel consumption at a given speed. The noise level is not in last place - the less noise the transmission makes, the more comfortable it is for the driver and his passengers.
The main characteristics of regular boxes
Two types of gearboxes are installed on Lada Vesta: mechanical, borrowed from Renault, and robotic - a deep modernization of the VAZ mechanics. The reason for choosing the first option of foreign production was the increased noise of the VAZ 2180 mechanical box, which was installed on the pilot models of Vesta. This was unacceptable for the new flagship of the concern. Then the developers decided to equip the manual transmission with an electronic control unit, whose task is to turn on the speed and squeeze the clutch. This is how the robotic box appeared.
Advantages and disadvantages of mechanics
As the former general director of the AvtoVAZ concern, Bo Andersson, stated, the mechanical transmission from Lada Granta and Priora, the predecessors of Vesta, can no longer satisfy the needs of a fundamentally new VAZ model. As a result, it was decided not to use the standard 5-speed gearbox on the Lada Vesta, but to replace it with a more modern foreign analogue. So Vesta got a five-speed manual transmission from Renault Logan of the second generation. It is impossible to compare the domestic five-speed mechanics with the European standard French box. The characteristics of the foreign analogue are an order of magnitude superior to the domestic box.
Significant noise reduction is considered one of the most important advantages. The owners of Lada Grants and Priors noted a strong hum from a working checkpoint, which was audible even if music was playing in the car. The box from Logan is quieter, the ride becomes more comfortable, which means that the level of so-called “road stress” is reduced.
Important advantages of the Lada Vesta transmission are high build quality and reliability. Oil consumption is less, it does not need to be changed so often. With the same mileage, the domestic gearbox is characterized by increased oil consumption, the need to replace the oil seal, and there are no such problems at the checkpoint from Logan.
The new box has more precise settings. This means that fuel consumption is lower than that of the Russian counterpart - on a car of approximately the same weight and with the same engine characteristics, the transmission shows a higher efficiency. Gear shifting is smooth - no jerks. Smooth running, coupled with reliability, quality, high efficiency, became the fundamental reasons for choosing a gearbox from Renault. Despite all the advantages, the mechanics also have disadvantages, the main of which is the inconvenience in dense city traffic. Logan's checkpoint is an old design, and it is no longer being modernized.
Advantages and disadvantages of AMT
Initially, Bo Andersson stated that Lada Vesta would be equipped exclusively with automatic transmissions manufactured at the Izhevsk Automobile Plant. This statement was far from the truth. As an alternative to mechanics, an automatic transmission from the same Renault Logan was chosen. To reduce the cost of the machine, it was decided to use a French robot variator - its technical characteristics were impressive.
The robot has five speeds, smooth running, it is convenient, as the driver has the ability to switch speeds independently in manual mode. AMT can also upshift or downshift automatically after reaching a certain number of revolutions - the CVT changes to a new speed after reaching a predetermined gear ratio. The box combines the best qualities of mechanics and the convenience of the machine. The robot allows you to reduce fuel consumption when driving on the highway, accelerate faster, feel more comfortable in urban mode.
Checkpoints of this type are not new in the automotive industry; they were installed more than 10 years ago. The advantages are obvious, but there were no less disadvantages, so cars with a robotic variator were not in demand. Domestic designers decided not to take into account the negative experience of foreign colleagues, considering the robot a promising direction.
They abandoned AMT Renault and upgraded the VAZ 2180 manual gearbox. Having equipped it with additional structural elements from the German company ZF, they received their own version of the Lada Vesta robotic gearbox. The owners of this car and some other VAZ models received a computer that independently depresses the clutch and upshifts or downshifts. This turned out to be a good decision - AMT remained structurally simple, and the weight increased by only 5 kg. Of the features of the new robotic box, the following can be distinguished:
- if you need to accelerate sharply, the robot can switch two gears at once;
- smooth switching in city traffic jams;
- if you press the gas "to the floor", the robot will still turn on the clutch smoothly;
- while driving, it is impossible to engage reverse gear;
- service life without repair - up to 10 years;
- does not make noise unlike mechanics.
The AMT box has advantages that distinguish it favorably from mechanics:
- the possibilities of manual and automated control of the gearbox are combined;
- you can start moving immediately after starting (even in severe frost down to -55 ° C);
- automatic adjustment to the driving style of the car owner;
- there is no direct connection between the lever and the gearbox, which means that there is no vibration and noise;
- cheaper to maintain and manufacture, simple and reliable compared to a full-fledged machine;
- reduced fuel consumption;
- fast and smooth gear changes.
Among the shortcomings, outdated technology is noted, because a manual gearbox, created back in the days of the USSR, was taken as the basis. Of the little things - a rollback when parking on the rise and the fact that you can’t do without a handbrake.
Vesta checkpoint malfunctions and methods for their elimination
Each gearbox installed on the Lada Vesta has a number of typical malfunctions that occur most often.
Problems of the robotic box
The weakest link in the device of the robot was the clutch. The most common malfunctions are excessive wear of the driven disk, clutch basket, failure of the release bearing and guides. Transmission problems can be guessed from slipping clutch, sharp jerks or lack of torque in motion. If the wear of the gearbox structural parts reaches a critical state, the electronic control unit will beep. The warning light on the instrument panel will come on, indicating that the gearbox is in emergency mode.
The second place in terms of the frequency of breakdowns is firmly occupied by the so-called actuator. Malfunctioning of the electromechanical drive leads to improper gear shifting and incorrect clutch operation. Even the most reliable unit cannot last forever - long-term operation inevitably leads to wear of parts. Most often, brushes wear out, power outages occur. Also, in a robotic gearbox, levers and drive teeth fail.
More information about all the existing problems can be found after the diagnosis in a specialized tech. center, but these will be only external problems. Not very pleasant surprises can be prepared by the robot for the car owner in terms of the internal structure. Identification of hidden faults can only be done by computer diagnostics.
With the help of special codes, power failures can be detected and some mechanical damage can be detected. Today, the diagnostic program and the codes for it are freely available, so you can test it yourself.
Manual transmission problems
Manual transmission malfunctions are almost always accompanied by a characteristic breakdown sound. There are other signs by which you can recognize that the gearbox is not in order.
| Malfunction |
Elimination Method |
| Noise in the box | |
| Release bearing worn | Replacement Parts |
| Oil level too low | Add oil to box |
| gears worn out | Replacement Parts |
| Gears won't turn on or are hard to shift | |
| Clutch won't disengage | Clutch diagnostics and repair |
| Shift actuator adjustment not correct | Adjust drive |
| The plastic parts of the transmission control actuator are broken | Replacement Parts |
| Spontaneous disengagement of gears | |
| Synchronizer worn out | Replacement Parts |
| Supports failure | Replacement Parts |
| Gear shifting not complete | Drive adjustment |
| Oil leak | |
| Wear of body parts (stem, seals, hinges) | Replacement of worn elements |
| Depressurization of the case, weak fastening of the crankcase or cover | Replacing the gasket or "landing" it on the sealant |
You can count more malfunctions of a manual transmission. However, it is worth considering the fact that, in terms of its structure and design features, it is simpler than a robot, which means it is cheaper to maintain. Some car owners solve common problems through minor box tuning.
The transmission of Lada Vesta is one of the most important components that most directly affects most of the driving characteristics of a car. The gearbox determines how the car will accelerate, how many speed modes it will have - the gearbox also has an indirect effect on the amount of fuel consumption per unit distance traveled. This unit occupies not the last place in the level of noise produced by the car, and, of course, in driving dynamics.
What gearboxes are used in the design of Lada Vesta and what to expect for the average buyer of this new model of 2015 should be told in more detail, as well as a comparison of the available options, describing in more detail their applicability.
Mechanics
According to Bu Inge Andersson, the manual transmission installed on previous Lada models (Priora and Grant) could not meet the needs of this new car. For this reason, the concern had to abandon the domestic unit, instead of the standard VAZ five-speed mechanics, using an imported analogue.
Under the hood, the buyer is waiting for a French manual transmission with a cable drive, which has five speeds. It was borrowed from the Renault concern - exactly the same manual transmission is installed on the second generation Renault Logan. The Euro gearbox from the French partner of the AvtoVAZ concern cannot be compared with the standard VAZ-2108 unit.
The first thing to note is the significantly lower noise level during operation. Many drivers of Kalina, Priory and Grants have repeatedly complained that the noise of a running transmission sometimes drowns out the music in the cabin. The French five-speed transmission from Renault is much quieter - this has a positive effect on the level of comfort for drivers and passengers and eliminates one of the factors of accumulation of "road stress" and nervous overwork.
Another positive factor will be the stronger assembly of the Lada Vesta box compared to previous models. Oil will need to be topped up much less often even after a long run - this is clearly shown by Logan's experience on Russian roads (with the same mileage, the JH3 is still in average operating condition when oil seals begin to leak on the VAZ-2108).
A pleasant moment will be a more precise setting of this gearbox. A car with the same engine design will consume slightly less fuel - that is, the French manual transmission shows greater efficiency than the native AvtoVAZ box. In addition, it provides greater smoothness - switching will not be accompanied by jerks. The choice of the Renault box took place for the reason that the designers of AvtoVAZ could not correct the defect of the domestic manual transmission, associated with insufficient smoothness.
Machine
Initially, Bu Inge Andersson, in his interviews (their videos can be freely found on the Internet), stated that the machine for Vesta would be equipped exclusively with the Izhevsk plant. The same information was published in several different publications - and they turned out to be wrong.
The "Frenchman" was also used as an automatic transmission of Lada Vesta - from the same Renault. At the same time, in order to somewhat reduce the cost of this pleasure, not a “clean” automatic machine was used in the design, but a robotic variator (AMT).
The indicators of the "robot" cannot but please. It has the same five steps as the mechanics, is perfectly tuned and combines the ability to manually shift and automatically switch to a new speed when the engine reaches the programmed gear ratio.
It's convenient enough. The box combines all the advantages of both the machine and the mechanics. From the automatic "robot" from Renault takes ease of use and reduced fuel consumption when driving outside the city; from mechanics - the possibility of a sharper acceleration (from 0 to 100 km / h in about 12.3 seconds instead of 13.5 on automatic switching), lower fuel consumption in the city.
The robotic transmission of Lada Vesta will be more widely available to domestic buyers in 2016 - at the moment, the concern's main capacities are aimed at assembling models with mechanics. Nevertheless, models equipped with a CVT are already on sale (they can be seen in the photo) - however, their number is somewhat less than models on the mechanics.
Price aspect
Of course, if you base your choice solely on versatility and convenience, then the mechanics lose significantly to the CVT, which can suit both lovers of classic driving with a hand on the lever and lovers of automation. However, the price issue still makes its own adjustments to the appropriateness of the choice.
Lada Vesta station wagon is perhaps one of the most anticipated budget cars in 2017-2018. After the appearance of the Vesta sedan on sale, motorists expressed a desire to see this model in a station wagon, although in addition to a roomy trunk, many wanted all-wheel drive and, most importantly, an automatic gearbox. Recall that today Vesta is available with two types of transmission - mechanical and robotic. However, the management of AVTOVAZ company not only does not want to fulfill the wishes of its potential customers, but it seems that they do everything with precision, but as a result, the Lada Vesta SW station wagon not only did not receive a classic automatic machine, but so far it will be available only with so hated by many robots.
Why this was done, we do not understand. Perhaps there is a certain quota for cars with a robot, so the management decided to first bring cars with the “wrong” transmission to the market so that at the first stage such versions would somehow be sold because of interest in the station wagon.
Although we don’t know the whole “inner kitchen” at AvtoVAZ, we don’t understand why the Russian concern flatly refuses to equip cars with a classic automatic, as, for example, it was done in Kalina, where the car is available, albeit with an outdated, but very reliable JATCO automatic transmission. By itself, the Lada Vesta car is very good, you must agree that the car has a good appearance and interior design, a spacious interior and it outperforms its competitors in terms of dimensions. However, if AvtoVAZ positions Vesta as a competitor to Volkswagen Polo Sedan, Hyundai Solaris, Kia Rio and Skoda Rapid, the domestic car has already lost initially due to the lack of a “torque converter”. Let's be honest, today there are few fans of a manual transmission, especially in megacities with their traffic jams, where 90% of cars are equipped with automatic transmission.
We sincerely believe that if Lada Vesta SV is available with a modern automatic transmission, then it has every chance to show good sales that will bypass the sales figures of the sedan model.
By the way, if we talk about competitors, for example, Korean cars are equipped with a modern and reliable 6-speed automatic transmission, while German and Czech cars are available with a robotic transmission, which helps not only significantly reduce fuel consumption, but also demonstrate excellent dynamic performance , with modest engine volumes and horsepower. It's about and.
Price and configuration Lada Vesta SV 2017
There are rumors that the Russian station wagon will go on sale this fall and will be available, in addition to the standard SW version, as is customary at AvtoVAZ in the SW Cross version, which will differ from the standard one in increased ground clearance, the presence of plastic protection and a different interior design, More precisely, a different upholstery.
As we wrote above, initially the car will be available with a 1.8 liter petrol engine with 122 hp. and 170 Nm of torque, front-wheel drive and a 5-speed AMT gearbox (robot). In the future, a version with a 1.6 liter gasoline engine with 109 hp should appear on the market. paired with a 5-speed manual (it is this version, in our opinion, that will have more sales than the version with the AMT box)
As for the price, so far there is no official data on the price tag, but there are reports on the network that the cost of the Lada Vesta station wagon of the 2017 model year will start at 610,000 rubles and reach 750,000 rubles, and in the case of with the Cross version, the price tag can even exceed the mark of 800,000 rubles. It is clear that the best-selling car will be in trim levels, whose cost will be no more than 600,000 - 650,000 rubles. One of the main competitors, in our opinion, for Vesta SV will certainly be Lada Largus. Among foreign cars, such models will be Skoda Rapid due to the volume of the luggage compartment, whose cost today is 604,000 - 950,000 rubles, that's essentially all, because there are no B-class cars in the station wagon body or models with a similar one on the Russian market. luggage compartment volume. As for station wagon cars in the C segment, their cost is much higher than the cost of Vesta SV.
A few words about AMT Lada Vesta SW
The robot on the Lada Vesta station wagon is a kind of symbiosis of an automatic transmission with a mechanical one. As it has already become known, and in principle it was not a secret. this transmission is presented on the sedan, AMT station wagon Vesta will have five gears + one reverse. Many mistakenly assume that AMT on Vesta got the car from the Renault-Nissan alliance, because. they own most of the shares, but this is not entirely true, because. the development was initially carried out by Russian engineers for the Lada Priora with a robot, from where the transmission was pumped to Vesta.
Read about the main pros and cons of the Lada Vesta wagon robot, as well as read the reviews of the owners. You can on a separate page, where we tried to cover this topic as much as possible by talking with the owners of these cars.
Why are so many people so negative about this gearbox? The answer to this question lies in not very convenient work, it is not quite mechanics and not quite automatic, in order to switch gears you have to work with the gas pedal. AMT is inconvenient when parking a car. Dynamics is lost compared to a mechanical transmission. Lack of towing capability. Well, perhaps the main fear of many = is the reliability and cost of repairs.
To date, the manufacturer installs 2 types of boxes on Lada Vesta: mechanical and Lada Vesta box - AMT robot. The press service of AvtoVAZ constantly notes that the company plans to have its own production of fully automatic boxes, but the conversations do not go further than assurances, there are no specific dates in the promises, so it is not known when Russian motorists will wait for this innovation.
Manual transmissions
Until September 2016 Lada Vesta was equipped with mechanical gearboxes manufactured by Renault, which were replaced with Russian-made gearboxes in order to optimize and reduce the cost. The new gearboxes, marked with the VAZ-21807 index, have become a reinforced version of the traditional VAZ-2180 base gearbox, equipped with a cable-operated shift mechanism. Modification 21807 is designed for higher torque than 2180 and is much quieter than the original box.
With the change of the box, the gear ratio of the main pair was slightly increased from 3.87 to 3.94. Vesta also became more dynamic according to the passport: the acceleration time to 100 km / h decreased from 11.2 s to 10.2 s and the maximum speed increased from 175 km / h to 188 km / h. Although, as a minus, it can be noted that fuel consumption has risen slightly: from 6.9 to 7.5 l / 100 km in the combined cycle.
To date, the production of cars with Renault gearboxes has mostly been discontinued, although, of course, they can be found in sufficient quantities among used models. It is possible to identify the model of the box by the VIN number of the car: if the GFL13 code is present in it, then the Renault manual gearbox, the code - GFL11 - is the VAZ "mechanics".
Versions with the first robot go under the code GFL12. However, for example, Lada Vesta SV cross is equipped with 2 mechanical transmissions to choose from: the first of which is domestically produced, and the second is French. In the second case, the French 5-speed manual JR5 from Renault is installed on the car (the main pair is 4.212).
Read also
automatic boxes
The first automated box - VAZ AMT's own development - appeared in the fall of 2014. It is based on a 5-speed manual gearbox and complemented by an electronic control unit and ZF actuators.
February 2018 new AMT 2.0 robots appeared, which replaced the first AMT development. The AMT 2.0 robotic box is installed only on 1.8 engines, however, it is possible to reflash cars of previous releases, including those with a 1.6 engine. To do this, you need to contact the dealership. To activate Creep mode on earlier cars, it is necessary to reflash the engine ECM and AMT. No structural changes to the car are required.
The main advantage of the upgraded robots is the appearance of 2 modes - creeping and winter, as well as reducing the time for sequential gear shifting from 1st to 2nd, then to 3rd. Switching intervals have been reduced by as much as 30% due to the optimization of the servo activation algorithm, regardless of engine speed. The creep mode increases the convenience of movement in dense traffic (traffic jams).
As for the creep mode, it is borrowed from the standard machine. When the gear selector is in positions A, M, R, the car drives forward or backward without fuel supply until the brake is pressed, the handbrake is raised, the door is opened. The driving speed can reach 15 km/h depending on the gear selection. In first gear it is 7–8 km/h, in second gear up to 14–15 km/h, while moving backwards – 5–6 km/h.
There is no separate button for the winter mode. It will help you start on a sliding surface from second gear. To do this, after starting the engine, it is enough to press the brake and select the M2 gear with the gearbox selector.
Variable speed drive
And, of course, fans of the Togliatti automobile industry are looking forward to the appearance of the promised CVT in 2019. According to preliminary information, the CVT with imitation of 7 steps will first be offered in combination with Nissan's 1.6l HR16 engine, as we are talking about the Jatco JF015E transmission, which is designed for torque up to 160Nm. It is quite possible that in the future the continuously variable CVT transmission will be gradually adapted to its own 1.8l engine.
The advantages of the CVT over AMT are obvious. This is, first of all, the convenience of speed control. Cars with CVT pick up speed especially smoothly, without jerks and dips. They have a smoother ride and dynamic acceleration than AT cars. The variator is both seriously quieter and more economical than classic torque converter autotransmissions.
Conclusion
It should be noted that the optimization of the transmission is an ongoing process at AvtoVAZ. However, all this information is unofficial and there is no confirmation of it. Although the undoubted fact remains the growth in sales of Lada Vesta in 2018. In the first four months, the sales volume of the entire Lada increased by more than a quarter - up to 110,000 cars. Demand for Lada Vesta increased by almost 25.5% compared to last year.
When choosing a gearbox version for Lada Vesta, each driver usually starts from his own experience. Professionals will not exchange a manual transmission for anything, in which the switching speed depends solely on the speed of the hands, and in a big city, AMT 2.0 with a creeping mode will become useful. Vesta does not yet have a smart and full-fledged automatic machine, but you can immediately expect that the price will become its important drawback.
Video
The most important system that is directly related to driving performance is the vehicle's transmission. Acceleration speed, fuel consumption, driving dynamics, and even noise when driving depend on it.
What gearboxes are put on Lada Vesta
In our Vesta, two versions of the checkpoint are equally possible:Robotic transmission; Manual Transmission. There is no classic automatic transmission on Lada Vesta! An interesting move. But maybe a variator will be added soon. In the first case, we are talking about a modified version of the “machine”, in which the computer itself is in charge: depresses the clutch, switches gears. This option turned out no worse, and, according to many, even better than imported counterparts. AvtoVAZ planned, at one time, to organize demonstration performances with the participation of foreign developments, hoping for a solid lead over competitors. There are, of course, some not-so-pleasant moments. So on the machine, Vesta will accelerate to 100 kilometers per hour in 14.1 seconds, which is far from record levels.
Maintenance of automatic transmission LADA Vesta
According to the service manuals, the oil in the box changes at a mileage of 120 t.km. But the officials furtively talk about the need for a replacement at 75,000 km. Robot Disadvantages The robotic transmission has been discontinued overseas due to a number of issues. They are also present on Lada Vesta AMT. Gear shifts abruptly, jerks in motion are possible; The semi-automatic “thinks” for a long time, during dynamic driving it does not turn on the right pair of gears in time; On the rise with a delay downshifts. The disadvantages are less noticeable if you drive smoothly, do not brake hard or accelerate. Robot Benefits Why did AvtoVAZ decide to produce Vesta with this type of box. The fact is that: The robotic box of Lada Vesta is cheaper to construct than a classic machine; Vesta with a robot consumes fuel more economically, unlike other gearboxes; A feature of AMT in comparison with automatic transmission is almost three times lower transmission oil consumption; The electronic mechanism provides protection against the inclusion of an incorrect gear while driving (this happens on the mechanics); The robot rarely breaks down, no need to diagnose and maintain frequently; The clutch engages and disengages smoothly when starting off and shifting gears, the lever does not vibrate while driving; Manual transmission is less noisy unlike manual transmission; Inside the box there is an option to compensate for clutch wear - more prolongs the life of transmission elements; The box is used in automatic or manual mode, as it is more convenient. The price of a robotic box for Lada Vesta At dealer prices, an ATM costs about 20,000 rubles, a simple four-speed automatic transmission is about 40,000. Recall that Kalina and Grant had one from the manufacturer Jatco. Now they have been replaced by a Russian robot.Vesta manual transmission
At the time of release, Lada had an imported box from Renault. The reason was the noise of the VAZ version. Less than a year later, Vesta got its own transmission of domestic production. First of all, the manufacturer was driven by the desire to reduce the cost of the car, so the rejection of the imported gearbox turned out to be a good help. If the predecessor had problems with noise, how the updated version behaves, it is worth finding out in more detail.Modification 21807
This option is a modified version from the VAZ-21080, in which the torque has increased, and excessive noise has been eliminated to a certain extent. The new filling of the main pair, the second speed gear contributed to a quieter operation. Unlike the robot, this transmission option is no longer stupid, coping well with acceleration. The cost of the unit was reduced immediately by 20%, which is about 3,000 rubles. Some characteristics have improved, but something has remained at a decent level. Let's talk about everything in order.Specifications
With the change in the main pair, the gear ratio also changed, it increased from 3.87 to 3.94. The car has become more playful and dynamic. It will take 10.2 seconds to reach 100 kilometers per hour, which is faster than Logan's Renault box by a full second of time. Top speed has also increased. It increased from 175 to 188 kilometers per hour on a domestic box. Unfortunately, such agility will consume a little more fuel than before. Consumption On a foreigner, the consumption was 6.9 liters in the combined cycle, but now the consumption has increased to 7.5 liters. Reliability of the body assembly This element was a success, because the part has become noticeably stronger. No need to add oil as often as before. The oil seal resource lasts longer, which means that the tightness is at a higher level than its predecessor, so it makes much less noise.How to determine which box is on Lada Vesta
To date, it is unlikely to be able to find copies with French checkpoints, because AvtoVAZ has already stopped their mass production. The only available options are with domestic mechanics. Externally, the box has not changed, the lever in the cabin has remained the same. You can determine the manufacturer of the box only by the VIN number of the machine itself. If it has a combination of "GFL13", then this is a brand new part, "GFL11" indicates our 21807 variant, and "GFL12" indicates an installed robotic VAZ transmission.The price of machines with mechanics
The new transmission costs AvtoVAZ in production 20% cheaper than the previous version (about 3,000 rubles). The price of a Lada Vesta sedan with a manual transmission starts from 512,910 rubles, Vesta SV wagon from 589,410 rubles. Lada CNG on gas in the basic configuration costs 649,900.Lada Vesta: robot or mechanic? What's better? Video
